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< games ~ [AC] [360] [PS3] [PC] [PSP] Blazblue |
| icycalm |
 Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:59 am |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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| Dale |
| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:19 am |
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banned
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Location: Michigan
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| I would be really surprised if the fans dropped Accent Core. I consider it to be the greatest 2D fighter ever. I just have this feeling that it will be somewhat different than the GG series. I doubt it will use the exact same counter/defense system as AC, but it very well may. The way the 2D fighter fanbase seems to work, dropping a very good old standard would be highly unlikely. I mean look how many old Capcom and SNK fighters still get played in the arcades. With the 2D fighter scene as it is now I doubt games like 3rd Strike or KOF '98 will ever go out of circulation. Unless there's some huge influx of revolutionary stuff in that genre, which I doubt there will be. I'm guessing that Basara will be a basic departure and will mostly appeal to fans of that anime. I don't think a new original property Arcsys game will sway that crowd (but you never know). I really enjoyed Hokuto no Ken despite its brokenness and I think a game as good as that one will keep the basic Sengoku fanbase enthralled. Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes by the time they finish Basara up. I think Arcsys knows better than to make Blazblue a basic GG clone. It should at least have all-new move sets for all of their Guilty Gear-estique characters. I'm also doubtful that Blazblue will have the balance of any of the more recent GG games despite the long development cycle. There's something about the 2D fighter genre where the developers never get a series quite right the first time. Arcana Heart almost broke this trend (it took two versions for them to get it down). |
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:24 am |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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Yeah, it all depends on how good the game ends up being. Obviously there will always be at least a few people playing Accent Core, but the more awesome Blazblue ends up being, the fewer people will stick to GG. Of course, as you said, the chances of Arcsys getting everything right with a brand-new game are not that high -- or getting ANYthing right, for that matter.
But there is another thing you are not counting, and this is the Type X2/Vewlix experience. I cannot stress enough how amazing it is to sit in front of such a glorious 32" widescreen monitor, and play a fighting game on such a well-designed, anatomic setup. The game completely fills your field of view and totally engulfs you. It's indescribable. This is one advantage Blazblue has right off the bat.
(Also, as for your comment on Arcana Heart, it most certainly did not take them two versions to "get it down". Apart from some minor issues with Kamui, the original Arcana Heart was amazingly well balanced. Nobody would be complaining if Yuki had gone straight to the sequel.) |
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| Dale |
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:30 am |
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banned
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Location: Michigan
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| Oh, I guess I shouldn't have assumed. That is a very good sign for Yuki then. I imagine this has something to do with their previous experiences in the genre. |
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:32 am |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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Well, they made money off of it. The update wasn't free. In fact, it was so expensive that many operators didn't buy it.
I am not sure if this is the better strategy, or the one that Arcsys uses, which is that they never update anything, no matter how godawfully broken. |
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| Dale |
| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:49 am |
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banned
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
Location: Michigan
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I thought that Arcsys did a pretty good job improving GG with AC. They really didn't need a crapload of fixing after the later versions of X2 anyway. I've heard so many good stories of low-tier characters doing good in tourneys that you don't hear about often enough...
Now that I think about it though just judging by that little Sol Badguy comparison shot it almost puts Arcsys in position were they have to do some better things with their old GG character sprites if they ever continue the original series.
From what I've heard I think their strategy is working. The way the 2D fighter scene looks to me it would be better to put a lot of effort into making a really good new game rather then smaller updates. It just seems like a better idea to make a game people will always come back to rather then bunch of slightly different games that people forget about. I honestly wouldn't even care about GG Slash that much if all the characters' move lists hadn't changed so drastically when they made AC.
BTW the new Melty Blood sounds great. I think that this three-different-styles system could either be really awesome or it could make it less balanced. Honestly if they just majorly fixed the tier list from Act Cadenza I'd be sold. |
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| ChaosAngelZero |
| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:28 am |
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Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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So... the game has been released on American arcades by Aksys themselves some time ago (http://www.aksysgames.com/bba/), has anyone here been able to try it out?
Here are some places where you can find it:
Family Fun Arcade - CA
San Jose State University - CA
Puente Hills Mall - CA
Tokyo Game Action - MA
Arcade UFO - TX
Planet Zero - TX
Game Galaxies - TN
The Nexus Arcade - FL
Chinatown Fair - NYC
Hawaiian Brians Billard - Hawaii
Sunnyvale Golfland - CA
The Game Grid - Utah |
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| ashn0d |
| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:10 pm |
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Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Spain
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:50 pm |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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A travesty in the making:
http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/viewtopic.php?pid=6398#p6398
Recap wrote: Capturas de la versión PS3 a la resolución "nativa" en IGN:
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/142/14246579/imgs_1.html
Lo entrecomillo porque es difícil saber si hay en realidad escalado por "hardware", dado el infame "anti-aliasing" aplicado (que, es de suponer --y MUY de desear--, será optativo, como en los GGXX). En Type X 2 el juego se ejecutaba en 768 líneas frente a las 720 de estas imágenes. En una rápida comparación [con las capturas de la versión "arcade" vinculadas en un mensaje anterior], parece que la diferencia la han solventado recortando líneas superior e inferiomente, preservando tamańo y relación de aspecto al menos de los personajes.
Cabe preguntarse si el juego podrá configurarse para las 768 líneas (estándar de los televisores modernos, por otro lado) originales o bien será un "scaling" por "hardware" como en los juegos poliginales. Ya lo que harán para los que usen TV de 1080 líneas me da miedo hasta intentar imaginarlo.
Click on the image to enlarge and see the difference clearly. And more background info here:
http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?p=5633#5633 |
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| BlackerOmegalon |
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:43 pm |
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Joined: 30 Jan 2008
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I'm very disappointed, there should be no excuses for the game to look like that. I was expecting we would finally a 2D arcade game that displayed properly on HDTVs. Hopefully this is just the result of a video setting or IGN somehow screwing it up.
I'm not sure if the issue brought up in this post shouldn really be an issue, as, if I'm not mistaken, most HDTVs below 40 inches have display resolution is 1366 pixels x 768 lines, matching the Viewlix cabnit. If I'm understanding the google translation of Recap's comments on the pictures, he mentions this fact. |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:23 pm |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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| I strongly believe that the anti-alias artifacts will be optional, much like it was in the domestic GGXX's. ASW is one the few companies which added 480p support for their PS2 games, after all, so it's clear it does care about this stuff. The worrying thing is the fact that we have 720-lines BB screens instead of 768-lines ones, despite being originally a 768-lines game and, in theory, having the WXGA as the standard for today's TVs. This is a bad sign since it could be telling us that the devs are (still) forced to use that HD standard, and just leaving the 768-lines mode in the hands of the always terrible "hardware scaling". |
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Or if they didn't want players to credit feed, since basic design choices all point to COIN OP. |
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:04 pm |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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The 720p screens are either cropped or scaled. Either way it's unacceptable -- I am not sure which of the two scenarios would be more acceptable to me if I had to choose between them. Hopefully, I won't have to.
So the most important question is whether there is a true 768p mode. There is a good chance that the 768p option will be simply an upscaled mode of the (either cropped or scaled) 720p mode.
And then there's the question of all the new content. If the new content is 720p native, then even if there IS a true 768p mode, you will end up messing the new 720p content if you use it...
Oh my. The ridiculousness of all this is epic, but what's most amusing this once is that the fault does not lie with Sony and MS, but with Taito and Arc Systems Works, for using the 768p resolution in the arcades in the first place. |
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| ChaosAngelZero |
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:05 pm |
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Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Since developers tend to use non-standard native resolutions in their games, I'd say there's just no way around the upscaling and artifact-filling.
Although I don't see any 2D games in Beyond3D's list, there sure aren't any games whose NR is WXGA's 1366×768 or 1360×768. I think that's bad enough, and then there is the difference between the processing capabilities of TypeX˛ and those of the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 (proof of this is the fact that the TypeX˛ can, supposedly, natively render at 1440p since its architecture is much more PC-like than the home systems). |
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:58 pm |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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Dude, we know the Type X2's specs -- there's no reason to link us to System 16 just for the hell of it. We all know the site's address.
There's also no question of power disparity between the Type X2 and the 360/PS3. The latter can certainly run everything the Type X2 can (at least the base model, that most probably Blazblue uses) just as well, if not better. The fact that the Type X2 can render at 1440p natively says nothing -- my Pentium III back in 2000 could go even higher than that, but was obviously several thousand times less powerful than anything on the market today.
So yeah. Like I said. The only questions here are:
1. Is there a true 768p mode?
2. What's going on with the new content? |
Last edited by icycalm on Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:02 am |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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icycalm wrote: The 720p screens are either cropped or scaled. Either way it's unacceptable -- I am not sure which of the two scenarios would be more acceptable to me if I had to choose between them. Hopefully, I won't have to.
Cropped. I thought the pictures made that quite evident, especially the last couple. And without hesitation that's the more acceptable scenario for a 720p mode, if you ask me.
Quote: So the most important question is whether there is a true 768p mode. There is a good chance that the 768p option will be simply an upscaled mode of the (either cropped or scaled) 720p mode.
That's exactly what I tried to say. In my previous post and already back in the Type X 2 thread from the past May.
Quote: The ridiculousness of all this is epic, but what's most amusing this once is that the fault does not lie with Sony and MS, but with Taito and Arc Systems Works, for using the 768p resolution in the arcades in the first place.
Given that 720p TVs were quickly replaced for WXGA-capable models as we learned, in the case of Type X 2 games being 720p we would be facing a very similar 'problem' but with almost no chances at all of a proper WXGA mode, so.
I'm quite convinced that the only fault here is MS and Sony's due to their software benchmarks. The TV makers industry and its standardization charade is pretty fascinating too.
Quote: the fact that the TypeX˛ can, supposedly, natively render at 1440p since its architecture is much more PC-like than the home systems).
Can't the home systems do that!? |
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Or if they didn't want players to credit feed, since basic design choices all point to COIN OP. |
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:10 am |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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If by 'home systems' you mean the consoles, no they can't do that. They can only go up to 1080p. But seriously, I think this is an arbitrary limit. I am sure the graphics subsystems of the 360 and the PS3 can theoretically go higher -- it's just that no one will do this since there are no TVs that can display that resolution without downscaling it. Whether MS and Sony have imposed a hardware restriction, or if it's an implementation issue (as, for example, with sub-480i resolutions) I don't know.
Bottom line is that we will never get anything more than 1080p out of these consoles, or anything less than 480i. |
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| BlackerOmegalon |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:21 am |
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Joined: 30 Jan 2008
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The easy way to get 768 on 360 is to connect it via VGA cable. Something strange I've noticed with my 360 is that it will give me the option of 768p via HDMI, but this won't work on an older HDTV. It seems like it's displaying in "PC mode" (that's what the TV thinks at, least), as if it was a PC connected via HDMI.
I haven't seen the option on the PS3 to display in other than 720 or 1080. What's even worse is that with some games it will disregard any options you've chosen switch to a certain resolution, rather than scale it to that resolution, Everybody's Golf for example will only run in 720p. As far as I know, there's no way to get the PS3 to run in 768. It's disappointing that the PS3 is a flexible console in most regards (storage media, controllers) except this one. |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:54 pm |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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BlackerOmegalon wrote: As far as I know, there's no way to get the PS3 to run in 768.
That's just software-dependent. Firmware, if anything. Thank Sony's benchmarks. And the people' inabilty to properly complain or to grasp the problem. Check it out:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=6257722#post6257722
If the retard who stole the picture would have linked this thread or at least copy-pasted the text, such a nonsensical, misleading reply wouldn't have emerged, and, perhaps, we'd have the people at Shoryuken Dot Com already complaining. And let's keep in mind that the people at Aksys do read that forum every day, quite likely. |
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Or if they didn't want players to credit feed, since basic design choices all point to COIN OP. |
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| ChaosAngelZero |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:45 pm |
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Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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You can look up the various PS3's video output modes here: http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/videooutput.html
icycalm wrote: Dude, we know the Type X2's specs -- there's no reason to link us to System 16 just for the hell of it. We all know the site's address.
Right icy, sorry. Won't happen again.
icycalm wrote: There's also no question of power disparity between the Type X2 and the 360/PS3. The latter can certainly run everything the Type X2 can (at least the base model, that most probably Blazblue uses) just as well, if not better. The fact that the Type X2 can render at 1440p natively says nothing -- my Pentium III back in 2000 could go even higher than that, but was obviously several thousand times less powerful than anything on the market today.
While I meant that the TypeX˛ could render great looking games at that resolution (as it has already been commented that both consoles working natively at a 1920×1440 resolution could most probably only come up with Dreamcast-quality graphics as far as "massive scale" games go), yeah, I forgot that the point here is just BlazBlue, and there actually isn't a single valid technology-based excuse not to have perfect ports, just the stupid digital television standards Recap justifiedly complains about.
About Kitsune707's comment; it's bullshit.
So easy to demonstrate the contrary that I myself took two minutes to save GameSpot Japan's arcade pic, recompress it at the same target filesize than IGN's console port one, and this is what I got:
JPEG compression and artifacting has two things in common with loss of picture detail and blurriness: jack and shit.
EDIT: And you can find about the Xbox 360's multiple video output modes here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360prosystem/highdefdetails.htm |
Last edited by ChaosAngelZero on Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:55 am; edited 3 times in total |
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:50 pm |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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ChaosAngelZero wrote: While I meant that the TypeX˛ could render great looking games at that resolution
Who says this?
And what does "great looking" mean anyway?
Besides, the Type X2 is basically a customizable PC. It all therefore depends on the configuration. The lowest model, for example, is certainly less powerful than a 360 or a PS3. |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:21 pm |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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Laughs. Thanks for the confirmation. The 'next gen' is amazing indeed. |
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Or if they didn't want players to credit feed, since basic design choices all point to COIN OP. |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:32 pm |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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| icycalm |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:32 pm |
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hyperborean
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Location: The United States of Europe
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| We weren't expecting the official screenshots to be 768p anyway. The question still remains if, when you choose a 768p output resolution on your 360, you will get a true 768p output or not. We probably won't have an answer to that until the ports are out. Chances look slim though. |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:35 pm |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6263156&postcount=4453
I was wrong. Having the pertinent links and even a perfectly-clear explanation made particularly for that thread hasn't prevented from emerging nonsensical and misleading replies. Kids need to die. |
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Or if they didn't want players to credit feed, since basic design choices all point to COIN OP. |
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| Recap |
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:35 pm |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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